Weekend Reading: Wouldn’t it be Loverly?

There’s been a lot of discussion on Twitter this week about ‘First Generation Classicists’ – mostly referring to people who were the first in their family to go to university (although this definition isn’t agreed on by everyone). I’ve seen some very personal and harrowing stories from people who’ve overcome incredible odds to study Classics.

Well, you’ll be glad to hear that this First Generation Classicist isn’t planning on sharing any particularly personal stories – not this week, at least. And none of my stories are deeply distressing anyway. Yes, I grew up in what used to be called ‘straitened circumstances’, and yes, I was the first person in my family to go to university, and yes, there were things that weren’t easy. But I haven’t been homeless or desperate, like some of the scholars who have been sharing on Twitter. If I’m honest, my difficulties in #FirstGenClassics have been more amusing than upsetting.

As I was reading all of this, I was also having conversations with students which, coincidentally, were bringing up some of the same problems mentioned in the #FirstGenClassics discussion on Twitter. So in this post I thought I’d highlight one of them: pronunciation.

I’m not talking here about how to read Latin and Greek aloud, or any serious language skills. I’m talking about the much more basic issue of how you use classical names, terms or titles in conversation, if you’ve never heard them spoken before.

Pronunciation is something that ‘first generation’ [I don’t like this term, by the way – but that’s a gripe for another day!] scholars identify as a problem for them, and often as a source of embarrassment and humiliation too. However, I think it’s even more a problem for distance learners, who could conceivably write an entire dissertation on Thucydides without ever knowing how to pronounce ‘Thucydides’. The lack of face-to-face contact means that pronunciation problems can become a big source of worry which can make distance learners feel out of place and self-conscious, and often it’s a worry that people will never admit to anyone. The higher your level in academia, the more embarrassing it can feel, so it’s a problem that doesn’t go away.

Sometimes, of course, my students ring me or talk to me online – and then they tend to ask me about pronunciation, as a few people have been doing this week. These queries are usually couched in a self-deprecating way (‘I’m not sure if I’m saying this right…!’; ‘I know it’s silly that I don’t know this, but…!’), but still, it’s a quick and easy way of fixing the problem.

However… most people don’t ring, and I don’t have direct and regular verbal contact with everybody. So a lot of the time, the problem goes unreported and remains unfixed.

So what do we do about it? Well, in previous years I’ve sometimes announced a ‘pronunciation week’, in which I invite all of my students to send me a list of all the terms and names that have been bothering them. Then I simply record an audio clip of myself reading out the list. It takes about half an hour of my time – and the reassurance and confidence it can provide is worth much more than that.

The internet can be a great resource for helping with pronunciation of names, with podcasts being particularly useful. Documentaries are good too, particularly the ones which feature academics. But sometimes it can be difficult to find a documentary or a podcast which addresses your particular pronunciation problem, especially if it’s an obscure term or name. What surprised me, when looking for useful resources online, is that there don’t seem to be a lot of videos or podcasts which specifically address pronunciation. There are a few big pronunciation generator websites, but since they seem to source their pronunciations from lots of different countries they certainly don’t help with consistency!

One video I found, which simply gives the ancient and the modern pronunciation of Gaius Julius Caesar, has had over 49,000 views.




The best resource I’ve come across is Emily Wilson’s pages of recordings, which cover the characters of the Odyssey. She says in her introduction to the recordings that her goal

is not to suggest that pronunciation matters much; you can have brilliant insights into Homer no matter how you say the names.  I offer this list to enable people from any background to read aloud and to discuss the poem confidently, without the inhibitions that come from fretting about pronunciation.


That, I think, is exactly right – pronunciation is about confidence. If you strongly suspect that your pronunciation of ‘Ammianus Marcellinus’ is wrong, then no matter how much you know about him, you’ll probably be reluctant to talk about him. Pronunciation worries can inhibit.



While a lot of the ‘first generation’ discourse makes this about social class, the situation of distance learners is quite different. It’s about feeling like you can take part in an academic conversation – and that’s difficult when you worry that people will laugh at you for a painful mispronunciation.

So I think it would be loverly if more pronunciation resources could be developed and made available online, to help both first generation classicists and distance learners to talk with more confidence. I’d do it myself if I had time [adds note to very long list of Things I’ll Do Someday].

Of course, I may well be missing things! So if you know of any brilliant resources out there to help with the modern pronunciation of names and terms, do let me know and I’ll pass them on!


Right… off for a Big Weekend – it’s my son’s birthday on Sunday, and much cake will be consumed!






This week’s links from around the internet



Roman fort gifted to the nation – The Guardian 

The papyrus scandal – The Guardian


Comment and opinion

Conference thoughts – The Archaeology of the Mediterranean World

Prince Harry and Tiberius – A Don’s Life

The morals of murderous women – Classical Wisdom Weekly 

The Taurobolium – Macquarie Ancient History

Racially biased textbooks – Ad Meliora

Did the Trojan War actually happen? – BBC Culture

Harpalus and Thibron – History Hit

The Black King among the Magi – Hyperallergic 

Cynisca of Sparta – Ancient Herstories 

On being pushed out of Classics – Sententiae Antiquae 

Women in Classics: Shelley Haley – Society for Classical Studies


Podcasts, video and other media

Videos from the Ancient Worlds Study Day – Warwick University

Catullus – In Our Time

All things Seleucid – The Hellenistic Age Podcast 



‘The Toga and Roman Identity’ launch and fashion show – Book tickets

10 thoughts on “Weekend Reading: Wouldn’t it be Loverly?

  1. My attitude (as you know 😉) is “Stuff it! I’ll say it as I see it. You’ll know who* I’m referring to anyway. And so, of course, does everyone else. If a penchant for patronising pedantry, or some superciliously superior smuggery, motivates you to pull me up publicly on my mispronunciation well… you’ll be embarrassing yourself, not me, you ‘meansplainer’!”

    *and the same to you if you’re thinking “it should be ‘to whom I’m referring’”! 😜

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Sorry I haven’t got any resources to offer.

    Whatever the correct pronunciation though, nothing will make me say ‘Kickero’ (I’m sure you know who I’m referring to).

    Also at the Helen McCrory performance of Medea at the National Theatre, everytime she pronounced Hecate (phonetically) she said Hecart. It may be correct, I don’t know, but I have alsways said Hecatay. It grated on my ears – didn’t take away from the amazing performance though.


  3. I’m kind of a First Generation Classicist – not first to go to University – but I am the first to study Classics and I never intended to! I started on an ordinary history degree with the OU then in my level 1 courses got ensnared by the world of Classics and as a distance learner is is quite difficult to work out how to say names etc. Antigone was one that it took awhile to click and Cicero was another. Which is why I feel that face to face or online tutorials are something that should not be lost as you can sit there and wait for the tutor to pronounce that difficult name before you go and splutter something totally wrong. For a few weeks when I was doing Antigone I was pronouncing it Anti Gone! ( I still refer to her that way to myself!). and as for Cicero – I just plain didn’t try! I’m about to start a Latin beginners course and just know there will be some words that I’ll have real difficultly with – thankfully it’s an online course so no embarrassing myself in front of other students!


  4. The funny thing is that Latin pronunciation is very easy! The problem with names is that we’ve borrowed them and twisted them to suit our English expectations … so names in English tend to be more difficult than names in Latin!


  5. Perhaps bravado is the answer? Someone once suggested that self-doubt should be buried and the tricky name be (mis?)pronounced with total confidence, leaving others to wonder if they’ve been wrong all along.

    Would that work for Apocolocyntosis?

    Best wishes for the happiest birthday celebrations!


  6. I was heavily influenced by W Sydney Allen’s book on pronunciation. I self taught.. But I decided that I ought to pronounce as per 5th century bce Attic. So phi and theta were pronounced hard by me. Still do when I read out aloud!!


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